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Description

In the last episode, Luke interviewed Kori Linn. We heard about Kori’s life story and how she came to be a certified career coach.

This week’s conversation highlights Kori’s one-on-one coaching and what it’s all about. The goal of this conversation between Kori and Luke is to help listeners like you understand if what Kori has to offer is something that would benefit you or someone you know.

Listen in to Luke and Kori’s conversation as they discuss who career coaching is best suited to help, who it might not be good for, and why a law firm may or may not want to hire her.

Transcription

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Luke W Russell:

Welcome to Lawful Good Powerful Partners. This is a series about interesting and caring folks that we know and trust whose journeys brought them to collaboration with the legal community. I’m your host, Luke W. Russell. I’m not a journalist, I’m not an attorney, I’m trained as a coach. I love human connection, and that’s what you are about to hear. Today I’m chatting with Kori Linn, one of our Lawful Good Powerful Partners. The goal of this conversation between Kori and I is to help listeners like you understand if what Kori’s coaching has to offer is something that would benefit you or someone you know.

Luke W Russell:

And by the way, you’ll get to hear a little bit of my own experience of using Kori as an individual and the people around me in my life who have also worked with her. Now, as you probably can imagine, Lawful Good requires an enormous amount of resources, and one way we make this show possible is by featuring people we know, like, and trust, many of whom we have a referral relationship with. In other words, if after listening to this, you think, “I’d love to hire her,” let her know you heard her Lawful Good interview and she will financially support our show for each listener that hires her.

Luke W Russell:

Join me as we listen in to our conversation where we are discussing whose Kori services are best suited to help, who she’s really not for, and why a law firm or a lawyer like you may or may not want to hire her. So Kori, let’s say a lawyer is listening and they’re like, “Okay, I’ve heard about Kori, she’s a coach.” What exactly does that mean?

Kori Linn:

Yeah, I get that question a lot. And it’s a great question because there’s a lot of variety, actually. Lots of different people coach in really different ways. So instead of answering what it means to have a coach, which I think, like I said, can mean lots of things, I’m going to answer what it means in my opinion, to have to work with me as a coach. Generally I’m a career coach, so basically what I work with my clients on is how to have a more delightful, fulfilling, satisfying career that is uniquely tailored to that person. But what that also often means is how to handle stress, how to handle overwhelm, how to handle workflow, how to handle relationships with other people, whether those are work colleagues or supervisors or clients.

Kori Linn:

And so it looks like all kinds of things, and we work on all kinds of problems that are in obstacles, that are in between the person having the experience of the career that they want. And then the lens and framework that I work through is the concept of mindset, and the concept that the way we think about things is optional. And for a lot of us, we have a very specific way we think about things and we don’t realize that it’s a perspective or a set of perspectives, we just think like, “This is truth.” But so many of us, that perspective that we have, the mindsets that we have are very informed by the ways that we were socialized and the things that we learned and the authority figures we learned from it and the culture we grew up in.

Kori Linn:

And so often inside of that socialization, there may be a lot of pieces that are not serving us and not helping us have the career that we want. And it may be the way… Like I was raised and socialized as a woman and so there’s certain pieces of socialization that are not for everybody, but pretty typical in how women are socialized and I’ve absorbed those. And then I don’t have to, but what I do is look at those and go, “Hmm, are these helping me have the experience I want to have? And if they’re not, do I want to unlearn them and reteach myself something else that’s going to enable me to get more of what I want?”

Kori Linn:

What that actually then looks like for the client usually is that they get more done and less time, which sounds like science fiction, but I assure you is very real because they’re able to be much more productive and do much more effective work versus more of luminous work. They tend to have higher revenue, they make more money, even if it’s not revenue, they maybe get raises, they experience a lot less stress, they stop working nights and weekends, stuff like that.

Luke W Russell:

Yeah. You mentioned just different ways people might be socialized. Could you give us a practical example of what that might mean for somebody that you might work with and then the benefit of coaching on them?

Kori Linn:

Yes, of course. A lot of people, people socialize as women, but even people not socialize as women, at least in my culture, in American culture, a lot of people are socialized with the idea that money is bad, money is the root of all evil, is a very common quote that people use. And so the thing is you have people who they want to be able to make a good living, they want to be able to support their families, they want to be able to buy a house and save for retirement. They want to be able to charge reasonable fees for their services or negotiate a salary. But at the same time in their brain, they have this running narrative, which they may not be able to even hear because a lot of our mindsets are subconscious going, “Money is the root of all evil. I’m allowed to have a certain amount of money, but if I get more money than that, then I have to really begin to question my good or bad.”

Kori Linn:

So what they’ll have there is these two competing narratives. One narrative is I want to make more money, the other narrative is money is bad, and that will have people wind up in a place where they feel very much they’re spinning their wheels because they don’t see that part of them doesn’t want this thing that the other part of them really does want. And so then we get to go in there and examine like, “Yeah, there may be some people doing things to get money, and maybe I don’t want to do those things or do them the way they’re doing them, because those don’t align with my values, but maybe I want to wiggle this just money is bad into something more nuanced and something more intentional versus this messaging I just received.”

Kori Linn:

And a lot of the times the messaging we receive is given to us by people that we would never take career advice from today, but because it’s gotten wedged down in our subconscious, we don’t even realize we’re taking their advice.

Luke W Russell:

Yeah. What’s the practical difference for someone and maybe for yourself or for a client where you start to see it play out in terms of actually affecting your life or affecting your income or affecting your day to day joy?

Kori Linn:

I’m a great example of that because I coach myself and then I’ve had many coaches who coached me and I know my own journey, obviously really well because I’ve been on it and lived it.

Luke W Russell:

That’s good thing.

Kori Linn:

It’s good. Yes, I remember it. I used to work in corporate IT and I communication so I sent emails to 25,000 people who worked at this company., and now I’ve gone from that to, I quit my job, I started a business that I went from having, obviously you start with no revenue to now my business is in multiple six-figure revenue for the year 2021. And to do all of that, to go from being someone who identified as an employee and to be able to become someone who identifies as an entrepreneur, a CEO and someone who’s built this business from scratch, I really had to change a lot of what I thought to be true about work, what I thought to be true about careers, what I thought to be true about myself as a person, what I was capable of, what I thought to be true about money, what I thought to be true about other people, with the belief growing my results that are real and tangible in my life have grown.

Kori Linn:

And I see that in the literal data in my business and also in the results my clients get. So through me getting coaching from myself and others, not only has my life transformed, but now the lives of my clients have transformed. I have people who’ve come to me and they coached with me a while back and they’re still emailing and texting and calling to say, “Wow, my life is so different, I can do the same job and not be super fucking stressed out about it all the time.” Oh, are F-words acceptable here?

Luke W Russell:

Yep.

Kori Linn:

Okay, great.

Luke W Russell:

It’s your interview.

Kori Linn:

I have all the sailor mouth happening. And that’s good for people to note too, if you are ever interested in working with me, sailor mouth Kori will be there.

Luke W Russell:

Yeah. Because I’ve seen on your social media, you post of all kinds of scenarios where your clients walk in and they negotiate for raises, they negotiate for what they’re looking for, or it’s also a lot of the dynamics play out whether it’s in relationships or whether it’s their professional relationships or personal relationships. What’s it like a scenario in which you would say a lot of the people you really make a big impact for, what’s the catalyst of that moment in which they go, “You know what, this is the kind of coach I want in my life. This is what’s going to help me.” What’s that moment in which a person goes, “I think I might want to work with Kori”?

Kori Linn:

That’s a great question. I think there are a couple different points. There’s the burnout point where people are I cannot keep doing it the way I’ve been doing it. I get a lot of those clients where they’re like, “Something’s got to give.” They’re like, “I’m either going to quit my job or I have to be able to do this job differently.” But the other group of people that I see a lot of where they’re just like, “I don’t know, I’m doing pretty great. I have the job I used to dream of,” or maybe they don’t have the job they used to dream it, but they have a good enough job, things are going good enough, but they have this desire, “This is good, but this doesn’t feel my one of a kind unique, perfectly suited to me career.” Or, “It’s pretty good, but I secretly want to start a business and I need to then do the work on that.”

Kori Linn:

Or I also get a lot of people where it’s pretty good, but they’re like, “I think I want to do something else.” Humans these days, most of us are living for a long time, so somebody’s pretty successful, they’re 35, they’re 40 and they’re like, “This is great, but if I’m going to live for another 60 years, I want to explore deeper and I want to really cultivate in myself the courage and confidence to be able to go after some ass wild dreams.” And they may need support, getting from the place of life is pretty good to I can take these crazy leaps. And I think part of why people choose me as a coach is because I quit a successful corporate job.

Kori Linn:

And a lot of coaches build their business before they leave. And I really respect that, I think that’s a really smart thing to do. It just so happens, that’s not what I did. I did give a lot of notice and I was very thoughtful about it, but I quit my job with no clients and barely a plan. And I’ll be honest, there were some painful moments in the first year and a half of business. And as a human, there are still many painful moments, but there are different kind. Now I’m having pain over trying to set up the paperwork for my self-employed 401(k) which is a different thing than trying to set the business up to get revenue and run and work. But so to circle that back, I do think people who are in the pretty good spot, but want something’s spectacular, they see me as someone who has done that, and I see me as someone who has done that.

Luke W Russell:

I have been working with you for over a year and a half at this point.

Kori Linn:

And it’s been amazing, for me too.

Luke W Russell:

It’s been absolutely.

Kori Linn:

I’m not trying toot my own horn, I’m trying to toot your horn.

Luke W Russell:

You can toot it all day. I’ve paid for every single team member to work with you for many months. My wife has now worked with you for almost a year and a half. So I’ve gotten a lot of experience with Kori and I’ve been able to see it. There’s a few different questions I have in here. One thing I just want to think about, I came to you because I hear people talk about how awareness is the most important step in changing our experience of day to day life. And I’m like, “Great.” I’m really self-aware, I think. I spent a lot of time in introspection, I’ve read a lot of books and think, and I was like, “I feel like I know what’s on side my head, but I don’t know what to do about that.”

Luke W Russell:

So the awareness isn’t getting me anything other than just an awareness of like, “Oh, yay. This is why I feel stressed.” And so I think for me I was much more in that category of like, “I like my life, I like where I’m going, but also I want to change my experience.” And for me personally, we could sit here and talk for hours trying to assess all the different transformations and wonderful leaps I’ve made, but I think where I’ve been able to really start to maybe put a number to something that’s really shifted is the amount of nights where it takes me a long time to fall asleep.

Luke W Russell:

I think about the stress and anxiety that I would feel two years ago and that might keep me up about whatever it is. It could be about the business, it could be about a relationship, with a friend, I’m going to think this, or coworker’s going to think this about me. That would stress me out and I wouldn’t be sleep for hours. Can you talk to me about stress and anxiety and why a person might be like, “Oh, I have this stress and anxiety, is this something that I just have to live with or is this something that working with a coach like Kori might move the needle on?” And I’m here to say, this made a radical difference literally in the day to day, I can tell you by how fast I fall asleep.

Kori Linn:

I love what you’re saying about the sleep because I think that’s such a powerful example. With coaching, there’s so many things we can work on directly like habits and behaviors and stuff like that, and sales and revenue and stuff like that. Sleep is so interesting because it’s one of the few things we can’t force in life. For me and so many of my clients we’re so good at being able to force things to happen. Now, over time, that forcing things to happen, doesn’t turn out to be super delightful for us. That’s part of what got me into coaching, it’s part of what gets a lot of my clients into coaching. A lot of us are really good at willpower and what I call white knuckling and just this forcing. You can’t force sleep, and actually, the more you try to force sleep, the more sleep is like, “Fuck you. I will not arrive. Anxiety is here to be your friend all night.”

Kori Linn:

So I love this example from your own life because I do think with coaching when you coach on so many different things, and the feeling of anxiety and stress and the stuff that’s coming up, I do see a lot of where people have better sleep and it’s not a direct result we can create on purpose or point to, but it is what I would call a good side effect that I see a lot. I’ve seen it with myself, and I love that that was your example too. When it comes to what stress and anxiety people are experiencing and when it’s a good fit for coaching versus when it’s a good fit for someone else, the breakdown that I like to think about with anxiety is the difference between clinical anxiety and what I am going to call the emotion of anxiety.

Kori Linn:

And I will be clear that some people have both, some people have clinical anxiety that’s diagnosed and they also have what they would call the emotion of anxiety. And I think coaching can be helpful for both in a way, but for clinical anxiety and for diagnoses, I always would recommend a therapist because they have a different skillset and they have things that are going to be really useful for that. But sometimes I work with clients who also have a therapist, so they have their therapist to do the therapist part and then they have me. And so where coaching comes in and is useful is first of all, if we’re looking at something like clinical anxiety, the way we think about our clinical anxiety matters.

Kori Linn:

So I’ve had clients who have clinical anxiety or clinical depression, they see a therapist to deal with that part directly, but then what they talk to me about is like, “Oh, I’ve noticed that when I think that my depression is ruining my life, then I feel fucking terrible and then I don’t do anything and I don’t do all these things that I know are self-care. And oh, look, I create a result I don’t like so maybe I’d like to have a different narrative about the clinical depression or a different narrative about the clinical anxiety. When it comes to the emotion of anxiety, that’s also where my work is really useful because the emotion of anxiety often comes down to how are we thinking about things and specifically, how are we framing them?

Kori Linn:

And I think it actually ties pretty closely to stress because humans have stress responses. All humans with functional brains are going to have stress. So I don’t see stress as the enemy, but I do think it’s something to know how to navigate and anxiety is something to know how to navigate. And sometimes anxiety and stress to me are very similar experiences. I don’t think they are always interchangeable, but I think there is a lot of overlap there. And while I’m not a therapist, I do have a lot of tools for this. I’ve read a lot of books about how to complete a stress response and why stress responses happen and how we can engage with our stress response in a way that’s useful for us.

Kori Linn:

I see a lot of people judging and shaming themselves for having stress responses, judging and shaming themselves for having anxiety, and that tends to not be super useful, but it can be really hard for us to get out of that loop. I also think that a lot of my clients have less anxiety, less emotion anxiety, because for a lot of people, they get what I call the anxiety layer cake, where they have some anxiety and then they get anxious about their anxiety, which adds a second anxiety. But then they’re anxious about the two anxieties then they add a third and it just layers all the way up.

Kori Linn:

So teaching people, it sounds like counterintuitive, but teaching people that anxiety is a normal emotion actually can reduce a lot of the anxiety that they experience. A lot of anxiety also is coming from the specific ways we’re thinking about things. So when we learn to think about things differently, that can also eliminate some of the anxiety. And for a lot of my clients, these are incredibly intelligent, wonderful, caring people. So sometimes they’re holding onto the anxiety because they’re like, “Well, there’s useful information in there.” Or they go, “If I stop being super anxious, am I just going to drop the ball on everything?” So I also teach my clients how to, what I call it is pull the useful content out of the anxiety.

Kori Linn:

Some anxiety has useful content where like, “Oh thank you, brain. That is a concern I want to address. I do want to double check that that’s done. I do want to reach out to that friend and say, ‘Hey, I’ve been thinking about you.'” But can we have that information and just gently separate it from the emotion of anxiety and then decide what we want to do about it.

Luke W Russell:

Yeah. I was laughing during the anxiety layer cake because that’s I think something we’ve talked about over the last year and a half, and that I’ve seen for me, again, especially at night, I’ll wake up at 1:00 AM and my brain’s like, “Hey, we have this big project, this big deadline, or this thing’s coming up.” And it used to when that would happen, I’d wake up, I’d be anxious about it and so I start thinking about it. And then I’d be thinking, “Oh my gosh, I’m not getting enough sleep.” So then now I’m anxious because I’m not going to get as much sleep, or I’m anxious because I’m going, “What if I sleep in?” And then I’m anxious, “What if I miss a meeting?” And then I’m anxious because, “Oh my gosh, I’m spending all this energy and I’m not going to do as good of work.” And so I’d spiral.

Luke W Russell:

And now, I still sometimes wake up in the middle of the night, my brain’s like, “Oh my goodness, we are ready to problem solve.” And I’ve realized I’ll just wake up and I’ll lay there for a little while and then once I realize I’m like, “Oh, I’m not going back to sleep.” I still feel that anxiety, but I’ll pull out my phone, I’ll make a note and I’ll sit there and I’ll just start listening at all my thoughts of, “Oh, I got this idea. Oh, ask this person this, or ask that person that.” And then because I’m realizing like, “Oh my brain actually has a ton of useful perspectives at the moment.” And I just let it go. And then after a while I’m like, “Oh, no new ideas. All right. Close my phone, put it away, I captured everything. Now, let’s relax and go to sleep.”

Luke W Russell:

And I actually get to sleep much more quickly than I used to in that scenario. It makes it less frustrating because then I also when I wake up and I’m tired I’m like, “Oh man, I had a lot of good insights in the middle of the night last night.” It changed the relationship with that and actually ends up being fairly productive and takes less time being awake.

Kori Linn:

Right. Isn’t that so interesting? It’s like the story anxiety tells is like, “I need you to be very upset and concerned because that will be helpful.” But when you fact check it, you’re like, “Thank you for that input, but I think you’re maybe mistaken.” And I think just learning to have also levity and gentleness with ourselves is so useful and something that most people are not taught to have levity and gentleness with themselves. So I think that’s also just a big thing I’m teaching with coaching. And then the irony is that makes it so much easier to get shit done.

Kori Linn:

People all think like, “Oh, being a hard ass with myself is how I get things done.” And I would argue that the opposite is true, being a hard ass takes up a lot of time and spends a lot of energy that we could instead be using to do other more interesting things.

Luke W Russell:

Yeah. An interesting thing I’ve really enjoyed in our coaching is how sometimes we’re still looking for, I might do the same action. I might choose to work late sometimes, but instead of doing it on a stress-based energy, I’m doing it on more of like, “Ooh, I’m excited about this,” or I have a reason.

Kori Linn:

I just call it positive fuel or negative fuel. But another metaphor is renewable resource or burning coal. A lot of people are running their work lives and their home lives and everything they’re doing on anxiety, and frustration, and fear, and concern, and worry, these negative emotions. And it can make you get a lot of shit done, but I think the side effect is that you often feel terrible, you feel terrible when you’re working. And then when you’re done working, when you’ve supposedly achieved the thing, your brain’s like, “I don’t know, I got really used to feeling anxious. So I think I’ll just keep doing that.” And you’re like, “Damn it. I was supposed to feel better now and I don’t.”

Kori Linn:

And then a lot of people think like, “Oh, if I feel joyful, or if I feel these positive emotions, I just won’t do anything.” I personally think that that’s false because we like to do shit and be useful and create things in the world. Do we want to lay down and do nothing sometimes? Of course. But I also think most of us are craving that doing nothing thing, because we’ve been ourselves to do something, do something, do something for so long that we feel out of balance. And once people take a break or give themselves some rest, they get bored. Most people get bored and they’re like, “I want to do some shit.”

Kori Linn:

So that’s that, but then I think even if you haven’t been able to give yourself that rest or break yet, just because it’s positive fuel doesn’t mean it’s contentment. It could also be commitment, it could also be enthusiasm. And I think it’s so much more fun and enjoyable to work from that head space. And listen, it’s not about doing that perfectionistically, it’s not about being like, “Now I will only work from joy and commitment.” Because that’s also a really high bar and then you’re probably going to fail immediately and then be like, “Damn it, it didn’t work.” So it’s about making incremental changes.

Kori Linn:

Everything I’m talking about, they’re vision of where we could go, but the way we go from who we are to those people is in tiny, incremental changes and praising the shit out of ourselves along the way because humans are very habitual and trying to do things a new way, trying to use new fuel, trying to switch from anxiety to commitment, it’s not a one-and-done. So you got to make little shifts and then really celebrate those. And the celebrating is key because if you don’t celebrate it, your brain’s not going to want to do it again. A lot of times people belittle their small actions and then their brain’s like, “Well, I don’t want to do that again because you were mean to me about it,” versus being like, “I made a tiny shift and I’m awesome.” Then your brain’s like, “Cool. Let’s do that again.”

Luke W Russell:

The general idea of like, “Oh, there’s a thought that underlies an emotion that then fuels what I do, which then affects what I get and my results.” On one hand, I feel like some people might reasonably listen to this and be like, “This sounds really intangible. It sounds fluffy.” But my experience has been radically concrete because I can recognize, “Oh, this is the thought pattern my brain’s doing.” And when I actually intentionally start to replace that with a new thought, that’s actually how I would argue as I look back at both results and then my own just personal experience of self. I’ve been able to drive results through different challenges, I’ve also been able to just enjoy my life more.

Luke W Russell:

I’ve be more present with my family and be more present to whatever it is I want to do if it’s not work, or then when I’m there doing work, I can have more clarity with how I approach stuff. So I think I would argue it’s really, really tangible. I’d love to hear you speak to that for the person who’s like, “This sounds interesting, but feels or seems fluffy or intangible.”

Kori Linn:

Yeah. Let’s take a concrete example. A concrete example could be, let’s say you have some kind of goal. For the sake of ease, let’s just say it’s a revenue goal, where you’re like, “Oh, I want to create,” I don’t know, let’s just make nice round numbers, “I want to create $5,000 in revenue this month.” So you could be, if you’re approaching that with anxiety going, “I don’t know how I’m going to this, it’s going to be really hard. What if I don’t do it, then I’m going to feel terrible. If I don’t get this revenue goal, I’m not going to be able to pay my bills.” And listen, if you have those thoughts, a lot of brains have those thoughts and that’s normal, there’s nothing wrong with you.

Kori Linn:

But I just want you to notice that a lot of those thoughts, a lot of those mindsets sound true, but feel really anxious, versus if you come at it from a different feeling line, let’s just say commitment, it could be like, “Okay, I’m committed to doing this, and if I knew I could do it, how would I do it? If I knew I could get this, how would I do it? What would that look like? If I’m committed to doing it, that means also if I work 20 days in this month and then I haven’t done it yet, then I keep going because I’m committed to the goal.” So I think the thing is that anxiety feels really realistic to a lot of people and really tempting.

Kori Linn:

I think people get confused about what’s realistic versus what we’re afraid of having happen. And so we’re like, “Oh, this sounds it could happen, which means it’s realistic, which means I should listen to the anxiety.” But when we listen to the anxiety, then we struggle to do the work or doing the work feels really yucky or with a revenue goal, if we’re really afraid we’re not going to do it, then also when we’re talking to the nice, wonderful human beings that we want to buy the thing we’re selling, we often get grippy and weird about them buying it because we’ve become so attached to the revenue goal. Whereas if I’m like, “Okay, I’m committed, I’m confident, I’m going to do my best at this,” it’s not about lying to myself, it’s not about being arrogant, it’s just about coming at it from a place of that it could happen and then I could create it.

Kori Linn:

I’m not going to give up halfway through if I haven’t created it yet. So in that way, choosing the confidence and the delight and what if I could do it, what if it could be fun, actually makes us much more likely to not only just have a good time, but actually do the work, which makes us much more likely to get the result. I’ve built my business this way and I really know the difference between trying to solve from a place of that anxiety and trying to solve from a place of commitment and confidence and believing that the thing I’m selling can be really amazing for the people buying it and that the right people are going to buy it. So that if someone says no to me, I don’t have to be like, “Oh, they said no, everyone will say no, no one will ever say yes, I give up.”

Luke W Russell:

Yeah. And you’re also not just talking about positive thinking.

Kori Linn:

No, I’m absolutely not. And I do want to be clear about that because a lot of people with coaching, they might hear about it and think I’m talking about just what I call bright siding, which is just look on the bright side or what sometimes people refer to as toxic positivity, which is like, “Oh, I have to talk about this in a positive way.” I think what I’m talking about is about reorienting to a way of seeing the situation that is useful to you and is going to help you create what you want to create.

Luke W Russell:

Yeah. One of the interesting things, I remember, when we first had our whatever, initial phone consultation, I remember it was like, “Okay, how are we going to judge whether or not this is a good investment for me? How are we going to go back like, ‘Hey, I signed up for a nine month program, did it work?'” This was after COVID had still started, but we didn’t know if we’d be doing all kinds of shenanigans for a long time. And so I was looking at conferences that fall and I was like, “Man, you know what, networking, receptions, it’s not a space I go and look around and I’m, ‘Yay. I’m so happy to be here.'” I would I go to these networking events and I’d float around, walk around for a while, hope to find someone, often not find someone.

Luke W Russell:

And the thoughts in my head, I look around, I’m like, “Well, why would I want to interrupt a conversation and who wants to talk to me?” So these thoughts, so then I didn’t start conversations. Then of course, the way the pandemic play has been playing out, I didn’t have those conferences a year ago. And so this past fall was when the first conferences that I was attending after having started coaching a year and a half in. And what was interesting for me is we had done a lot of different coaching on this. And so I remember going to my first conference, I was in Washington DC and I’m looking around in the room and I still have this, my brain’s like, “Oh my gosh, no one wants to talk to me.”

Luke W Russell:

But I was also like, “You know what, we had coached on this.” And I was like, “I wonder if I could just find one person who wants to talk about us, have an interesting conversation.” And rather than be like, “Oh, everyone should want to talk to me.” It was just I started to find my own ways to move through the room and to find conversations. I still had those thoughts of no one wants to talk to me, blah, blah, blah. And also I love, Somebody recently I interviewed was talking about how they’d be at networking events and they’re all like, “Oh no, you go first.” “No, you go first.” Because it’s like this, “Uh, for some of us, networking feels really scary.”

Luke W Russell:

And I wouldn’t say it’s all gone, but I also go and I’ve found I really delight and in having conversations with people and how many people when I have a rich, interesting conversation, it’s not me thinking just positively, but it is something for me, again, it’s been like, “Oh wow. I love really authentic conversations. And actually I know a lot of people like those, so let’s go see who I can talk to about that.” So that’s been a spot for me where it’s been really practical, but it was a delayed year for me to see effects of that because of COVID, but that’s been really cool for me.

Kori Linn:

Well, I think that’s such a good example too, of what I was talking about earlier about incremental change. You didn’t go from, “No one wants to talk to me,” to, “Everyone wants to talk to me.” You went from, “No one wants to talk to me,” or whatever the initial thought was to, “Maybe one person. Maybe there’s just one, maybe just I can have one interesting conversation here.” And that was enough of a switch and not too big of a switch that you were able to make it and then you were able to go out and try it. And if the first person you had talked to didn’t turn out to be a good fit, you could have been like, “Oh, maybe there’s one and it wasn’t you, maybe it’s someone else.”

Kori Linn:

And it would’ve given enough leeway and space there for you to keep being open. It doesn’t have to be a big shift right away. And in fact, making a small shift actually makes the big shifts much easier, because all big shifts are really just a bunch of small shifts.

Luke W Russell:

Yeah. One of the other things for me, how I’ve used you is like I mentioned earlier with coaching my team, I’ve viewed this, and I’ve shared this with other business owners that having my teamwork with Kori is I think just a way that I help my team and empower my team who are all fantastic performers. And I don’t look at them like, “Man, why don’t you get them some help.” If I’m in that scenario, I have other questions I need to be asking. But my whole team has worked with you and I’ve seen this play out in so many really wonderful ways. Everything from how we’ve navigated stressful situations, and maybe not everybody would want this, but my team advocating for themselves in ways, making like, ” I need this time off, so I’m going to take it unless you really for some reason don’t need it.”

Luke W Russell:

It’s people advocating for themselves so that they’re taking care of each other. And I’ve always claimed I value my people, but I think in our dynamics, we’re used to, “Oh my boss wants this, my boss wants that.” Or, “I shouldn’t say this, or if I do, my boss is going to… ” And it’s helped really further the culture I’ve wanted to create by all of us working with you.

Kori Linn:

Well, I think it creates so much more opportunity for a deeply connected culture because if I can’t really tell you that I want that time off, then I’m putting also, there’s a limit in how connected we are, there’s a limit in how much I trust you, there’s a limit in just how deeply we can work together because I’m not actually allowing myself to be real with you. Whereas when you empower your employees, sometimes the things they say will not be the things you want to hear, but that doesn’t mean that the things they’re saying aren’t actually going to create more value for you in the company. And I think we can create so much more value collectively when we’re able to disagree, when we’re able to have difficult conversations, when we’re able to advocate for ourselves.

Kori Linn:

And when we do advocate for ourselves and we get the things we need to have, then we’re also able to give more back, we’re able to have that higher productivity in less hours. And sometimes it’ll surprise us the way it happens, we’re like, “Oh, I thought this way of doing the team culture was really working, but now that I’ve taught all my employees to advocate for themselves, they’re all saying no, we actually don’t want that thing at all, it’s not actually helping us. We want this thing.” Now that might not always be the most comfortable thing to hear, but if what we genuinely care about is building a really wonderful company that empowers people to bring their best ideas and they are going to set themselves up for the most success, then that’s what’s actually going to help us do that.

Luke W Russell:

And also what’s different from you as a coach with my team compared to the way other coaches might interact is there’s strict confidentiality. So I have no idea. My team could be complaining about me, who knows, and I have no idea. I don’t hear that from you. And I think that’s an important distinction in what might also make some people more uncomfortable with it, because it’s not a power dynamic, it’s actually, “Hey, I want to support my team, but I don’t get interesting insights.” Whereas another coach might be hired for a very different reason and be offering insights to the business owner about what the team’s saying, but I don’t get that in this environment.

Luke W Russell:

And I think that’s actually one thing that makes it so powerful and special for the whole all of the team is I don’t get it from Kori, I get it from that person if they ever tell me.

Kori Linn:

The kind of coaching I do, I think a part of it that is really essential is creating safety, that people can bring anything they want to me and I am not going to be judgmental and it’s not going to leave the room. And I do think that allows employees to work through issues that they have a lot of self-consciousness about, or they’re like, “Oh, I want to talk this through with Kori,” So I get like you said, “So I can go have the conversation.” Or maybe they’re like, “I want to talk this through with Kori and then never have the conversation because it’s not about that person anyways.

Kori Linn:

Or maybe they’re like, “I’m not even talking about work stuff,” because sometimes what’s interrupting people’s ability at work is that they’re having stress about a different area of their lives and what they actually need is coaching on something else so that they can put that away. And then when they’re at work really be like, “I’m all in here.”

Luke W Russell:

Yeah. I also think it’s interesting that you mark yourself as a career coach and my wife who is a full time at-home mother, homeschool’s the kiddos-

Kori Linn:

Which is a career according to me.

Luke W Russell:

Yeah. I agree. And she’s been coaching with you and I know you’re not a relationship coach, but I would say for me, it’s probably been one of the most rich, rewarding relationship things we’ve done, even though we’re both doing completely independently, but it’s been remarkable for taking what would I would call already a great marriage and partnership to beautiful new heights.

Kori Linn:

Yeah. I think what you’re talking about actually happens a lot. So I’m a very holistic career coach. I say I’m a career coach and that’s true, and what I talk about on my podcast all the time is career and what I talk about on the internet all the time is career, but I just believe so deeply in people being holistic. So when someone hires me, if they want to come and get coached on their marriage, I coach them on that. If they want to come and get coached on their sleep patterns, I’m going to coach them on that. And for any topic that they bring, I’m always also going to say, “Here are the things where coaching can help here. The things where you might need a different kind of expert,” especially with things like sleep, I will coach you on it, you might also need a different expert relationship. I will coach you on it.

Kori Linn:

You might also want to call in a different expert, but whatever may people bring, that is what I coach them on. And I do think it’s all interconnected, and I think the thought patterns that are maybe creating disconnection in one area of our lives can also be creating that in another area. So I see it all as being interrelated and always being useful. And I like to think about coaching the whole person, because if we build an amazing career for you but then everything else in your life got destroyed, that’s not really an amazing career, that’s not really an amazing life to me.

Kori Linn:

You get to choose for you, but I like to work on the whole picture and I think that’s part of what’s so hard is trying to create the whole picture in a world where 1,000 things are competing for our attention all the time and we have all these ideas we absorb about all the things we have to do to be able to be a good person. And so really working through that with people I think is a beautiful thing and it’s what I love to do.

Luke W Russell:

Who are you not a good fit for?

Kori Linn:

I’m not a good fit for somebody who wants to be told really specifically what to do or who wants someone to review their resume or say like, “Oh, I think you should do this kind of job.” There are coaches who do that, and that’s amazing, that’s not what I do. I help people tap into their own inner knowing and remove obstacles and dismantle these old systems of thinking that are keeping them stuck and unhappy, but I am not prescriptive and I’m not formulaic. So I’m never the person who’s going to tell you, “Oh, I think you should be an illustrator because you have these skills.” That’s not my thing at all.

Luke W Russell:

Yeah. And then final question, if someone’s like, “Okay, interesting, Kori, how can I learn more? How can I connect with you?”

Kori Linn:

You can find me on Instagram @korilinn, K-O-R-I-L-I-N-N. I’m also korilinn.com. I have a newsletter that goes out weekly. I have a podcast called Love Your Job Before You Leave It. And I love to hear from people. So come, direct message me on Instagram. If there’s a topic you want to hear me talk about on my podcast, come follow me and comment, let’s banter back and forth. I just love getting to know people and learning more about them and what they want to hear about. And then creating content for people because that’s what I’m here for. I’m here to help other people have amazing careers. And so you got to tell me what you want, and I’ll help you get there.

Luke W Russell:

If you’re thinking, “Yeah, I’d love to speak with Kori,” or want to check out more information on the work she does, go to korilinn.com. That’s K-O-R-I-L-I-N-N.com. Don’t forget to check out her podcast, Love Your Job Before You Leave It. If you do reach out, please let Kori know that you decided to contact her after listening to the Lawful Good interviews. By doing so, you are helping support the podcast and the work we are doing in the world. Thanks so much for listening to us this week. This podcast is produced by Kirsten Stock, edited by Kendall Perkinson, and mastered by [Guido 00:39:40] Bertolini.

Luke W Russell:

A special thanks to the companies that make this project possible, Russell Media and the SEO Police. You can learn more about these groups by visiting our website, lawfulgoodpodcast.com. I’m your host, Luke W. Russell. And you’ve been listening to Lawful Good.